Jesus was a composite creation

[Gary DeVaney]

Hello everybody.

Before I proceed, I would first like to say that I was once a devout Christian who loved going to Church and loved Jesus Christ and loved every story in the bible. I would read bible stories to my 2 boys at bedtime, and insist that the stories were factual, unlike fairytale stories.

I still believe in God today, I just don't believe in religion any more. Which is a very powerful statement from me, because my religion was a very important part of my life, and I loved being part of it.

Ironically, it was my love of my religion and love for Jesus Christ that started my journey to the truth. I wanted to know more about Jesus Christ, so I thought what better way to find more information than using the internet.

This is how I found this website, and I have seen your video documentary on youtube, which I enjoyed watching. I commend you for looking for the truth, and for your brave words against those who are guilty of the lies that you have revealed.

However, you didn't go far enough in revealing all the lies. The fact is that the whole bible, both the old and new testaments, are a complete fabrication, totally devoid of any historical facts. The whole book is really just a composite of stories and myths told orally from generation to generation, until some people decided to write it all down (over the centuries and with continued additions and omissions), and call it the word of God. Jesus Christ is one of the biggest composited characters of all!

When I first started my internet information journey, I was just looking for information about Jesus. Information about Jesus on the internet was scattered and very disorganized. It was a complex subject no doubt, and it was difficult telling the difference between accurate information and outright lies. At first, any information that contradicted my own beliefs was immediately rejected by me. I automatically assumed any negative information was the Devil's work, and I was not going to be deceived so easily. But then something unexpected happened. I found out incredible information that pre-dates Jesus by hundreds of years. Information that seemed too outrageous to be true, but no doubt it was true. The truth was finally revealed to me, and my eyes and mind was now wide open.

And the truth that I'm referring to is that Jesus Christ was a Composite fictional character, conjured up by numerous myths and beliefs taken from other cultures and religious cults of the past.

His name itself is a composite of Hesus (a Druid God) and Krishna (a Hindu figure). Put the names together and you get Hesus Krishna - or Jesus Christ as the name has evolved over the centuries as ancient languages are translated and evolve.

Even the stories about his birth, his life, his disciples, his healing power, his virgin Mother, his Father being God, his death, his crucifixion, him rising from the dead, the north star, the 3 wise men, and so on - are all found in various religious myths and stories that all pre-date the birth of Christ.

But don't take my word for it. Here are some of the amazing facts I have uncovered, all of which can easily be verified by reliable historical records (a bit long, sorry)...

Hindu
Hinduism consists of a Trimurti (trinity):
Brahma: The Creator.
Vishnu: The Sustainer.
Shiva: The Destroyer.

Christianity consists of a Trinity: The Father The Son The Holy Ghost.
5,000 years ago Vishnu appeared in the form of a man before Devaki who conceived Krishna by Virgin Birth.

Hindus worship the God, Vishnu.

Krishna “The Savior” is the eighth (8th) Avatar of the God, Vishnu. The Higher Being takes on a mortal body, out of compassion, to help suffering humanity to attain perfection.

Krishna was born of a Virgin.
Krishna was crucified, his arms extended on a cross. *
Krishna descended into Hell.
Krishna rose from the dead.
Krishna ascended into Heaven.

Krishna’s Miracles
The multiplication of small quantities of food.
The healing of the sick and a laying on of hands.
The raising of the dead back to life.
The destruction of demons and the exorcism of the possessed.
Appearing in less than a fleshy body. (Jesus’ transfigured body)
Krishna’s childhood parallels Jesus with the King’s early massacre of infants.
Krishna was able to perform miracles as a child. A snake crawled into his cradle and he killed it with his bare hands which is a parallel myth to the young Hercules.
Krishna released people from sin, drove out evil spirits, raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, hearing for the deaf, made the lame walk, healed lepers.
Krishna, The Son of God, did not want to start a new religion - merely to cleanse an old one.

The ninth (9th) appearance of Vishnu on Earth was in the form of Gautama Buddha; Prince Siddhartha, Sak y amuni (About 560-491 BC). Actually, the Prince abandoned his wife and family (was a dead-beat dad at least time-wise) and he bummed around for a few years, then became The Buddha and shared His enlightenment.
Both Buddha, of the Orient, and Jesus, of the Jews, divested themselves of Earthly and personal ties. Krishna, of India, had also lived in poverty, had been devoted to the poor, was devoid of personal ties and advocated chastity.

About 500 BC, Buddha consisted of another Trinity:
Buddha - Dharma - Sangha.

Buddhists formalized their doctrine at The Council of Pa tali putra which took place in 241 BC, about 250 years after Buddha’s death.

Christians formalized Jesus’ doctrine at The Council of Nicea in 325 AD which took place about 300 years after Jesus’ death.

The books that made up “The Canon” (Bible) were also voted on at the time and Jesus was voted to be Divine.

Buddha Paraphrased

Buddha: The knowledge of the truth is the supreme blessing.
Jesus is "God's word" and God's blessing.

Buddha: If they hit me, I would not react.
Jesus: If they strike you, turn the other cheek.

Buddha was tempted by Mara, the Lord of sensory pleasures.
Jesus was tempted by Satan.

Buddha spoke in parables.
Jesus spoke in parables.
In Matthew, Jesus’ disciples requested that He speak in parables to explain Himself so to better understand Him. Luke 19:27

Who in the New Testament, besides Jesus, is written to be expanding his kingdom? Isn’t Christianity, the expansion of Jesus Christ’s kingdom?

Buddha was regarded both divine and human.
Jesus was “voted” at Constantine’s Counsel of Nicea to be both God and man.

Buddha had 12 disciples. His first 2 disciples were brothers.
Jesus had 12 disciples. His first 2 disciples were brothers.

Buddha walked on water and had an unsure disciple walk towards him on water.
Jesus walked on water and had an unsure disciple (Peter) walk towards him on water.

Buddha was considered to be The Son of God.
Jesus was considered to be The Son of God.

Some considered Jesus Christ to be a Buddha in the making.
That idea kinda makes Christians mad, huh?

Buddha was born of the Virgin Maya.
Jesus was born of The Virgin Mary.

Both without carnal intercourse.
Catholics insist that Mary retained her virginity. 3 things:
1. Jesus was not caesarian born = vaginal birth cannel = Mary is no virgin.
2. Jesus had named brothers. No mention of their adoption. Important.
3. Mary / Joseph not legally married if it was never consummated by sex.

Buddha was baptized.
Jesus was baptized.

Buddha died - His coffin opened by supernatural powers - He ascended to Heaven.
Jesus' tomb was opened - He eventually ascended to Heaven.

Buddha was to return to Earth to restore order.
Jesus was to soon have a second coming.

Rome captured a city who worshipped Sol-Invictus, a Sun God, whose birthday was on December 25th. On that date the Winter-Solstice lasts 3 days and then the primitive religious people worshipped that the Sun seemed to come back to life for the spring crop season.

Mithraism: Mithra was another god born on December 25th.
Who borrowed December 25th? Who supposedly came back to life in 3 days? Jesus!

Alexander the Great is historically recorded to have lived (356-323 BC) and to have died at 33 years of age. He was considered to be The Son of God.
Are Jesus Christ’s birth and death dates recorded?
Response? What year was Jesus born – and when did He die?
Did history document the years of Alexander's birth and death?
According to history, did Alexander The Great live 500 years before Jesus Christ?

If Jesus Christ was a real, historical character, why did history not accurately record Jesus’ year of birth and death?

Didn’t Jesus, son of God, supposedly die at age 33?

Exactly what year was Jesus born and what year did Jesus die?

Jesus Christ, outside the Bible, was not a historical character. Outside the Bible, history makes no mention of Jesus' exact dates of birth and death – nor of Jesus Christ, Himself?

Josephus, you say? Christian Popes ruled. Some Christian Pope edited Jesus into history.

Let’s ask simple questions to better understand what can be known – and not known. I question everything. I believe nothing.

The Bible claims that King Herod the Great, a true historical character, heard that a child was born in Bethlehem so to become King of the Jews.

In Matthew, Herod killed all of Bethlehem's male babies 2 -years old and younger so that no child could survive to become King of the Jews. Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt to escape the massacre and they came back after King Harod died.

Historical encyclopedias and dictionaries document that King Herod The Great died in 4 BC and that if Jesus Christ ever existed, He must have been between 4 & 6 BC.

How could Jesus Christ be born 4 to 6 years before Himself?

If Jesus was born on December 25th, why does the New Year calendar start January 1st – and, why is the calendar 4-6 years off? No wiggle-room. Why?

If you can hypnotize, brainwash and manipulate the masses to obey a fictitious or a false authority, you have authority worship. An “assumed authority” can then easily step in and benefit.

Hercules was considered to be The Son of God.
Jesus was crucified on a mount. His last words were: It is finished.

At the counsel of Nicea, Jesus was voted by Constantine's clergy to be "The Son of God".

All religions consider themselves to be THE TRUTH while declaring that all others are lies.

More human beings have been slaughtered in the name of God than in any other cause.

If the concept of God is the historical cause - can human abandonment of the concept of God be a solution?

Long before Moses - a Pharaoh named Amen-Ra - of the Egyptians, changed traditional religion to the worshipping of one God - Horus - whose adversary was named Set.

Any Pharaoh since was considered to be the reincarnation of God.
Horus and Set is another comparison to Jesus and Satan.
Horus baptized. Jesus baptized.
Horus and Jesus both were called “The Lamb” and had 12 followers.

Lama-ism, is a form of Buddhism. It has produced 14 men who have been called the Dalai Lama - “God’s Lamb”.

Here are some men, all before Jesus, who, by coincidence, are claimed to be of virgin birth, to be The Son of God, who were all teaching by age 12.
A King killed male infants trying to destroy each of them.
Each began his ministry at age 30 and was killed on the cross at age 33.
All lived BC (Before Christ)...

Thulis of Egypt 1700 BC
Krishna of India 1200 BC
Crite of Caldea 1200 BC
Atys 1170 BC
Thammuz of Syria 1160 BC
Prometheus 847 BC - Prometheus books… McKinsey
Hesus of the Druids 834 BC
Indra of Tibet 725 BC
Bali 725 BC
Lao of Napal 622 BC
Sakia 600 BC
Alcesios 600 BC
Mithra of Persia 600 BC
Quexalcote of Mexico 587 BC
Wattoba 552 BC
Quirinus of Rome 506 BC

Didn’t a King also kill all the male babies when Moses and Jesus were born?

Saviors Borrowed?
Has the Christian Gospel "borrowed" historical accounts describing Jesus from Eastern scriptures which existed centuries before long the Bible?

Krishna was crucified.
The Persian remembers the atoning sufferings on the cross of Mithras the Mediator.
The Aztecs prayed for the miraculous return of their crucified savior, Quexalcoatl. They were rewarded - with the murderous acts of Cortez.
Caucasians chanted praises to their slain, Divine Intercessor, Prometheus, for voluntarily offering himself upon the cross for their sins.

The Christian hugs to his heart the bloody cross of the God orchestrated torture and murder of His only begotten son, Jesus Christ. Christians demand that only one god ever died for the sins of man.

To retain their following, Christianity is based on unchangeable dogmas which disciples must accept to the exclusion of all knowledge adverse to their own creed. Whenever they are able they actually destroy contrary evidence for fear of rivalry. Then they magnify their own religion to a unique position above all others.

The earlier Christian saints made stern efforts to obliterate from the page of history facts damaging to their case.

A report on the Hindu religion, by British sent to India to examine their sacred books was left in the hands of a Christian bishop at Calcutta, with instructions to forward it to England. On its arrival in London, it was mutilated and the account of the crucifixion was gone.

The disciples of the Christian faith have burnt books, blotted out passages and bowdlerized testaments which suggested the opposite of their belief. Not only that, they have demolished monuments showing crucifixions of previous atoning gods so that they are now unknown. Hence, the disbelief of Christians when other cases are mentioned.

Kersey Graves, in a well known book written over a century ago, gives examples of sixteen crucified gods or saviors.

Kersey is certain these next crucifixions occurred before the time of Christ, but their exact date cannot be fixed.

These crucifixions are not vouched as actual occurrences. The objective is not to prove them real events - but simply that the belief in the crucifixion of gods was prevalent long before the crucifixion of Christ.


Tammuz of Mesopotamia 1160 B.C.
Tammuz was a god of Assyria, Babylonia and Sumeria.
Tammuz was crucified as an atonement offering for the salvation of the world.
This savior, which long preceded the advent of Christ, filled the same role in sacred history.

Wittoba is represented in his story with nail-holes in his hands and the soles of his feet. Nails, an iron crown.

Lao of Nepal 622 B.C.
Iao was crucified on a tree in Nepal.

Hesus of the Celtic Druids 834 B.C.
The Celtic Druids depict their god Hesus as having been crucified with a lamb on one side and an elephant on the other long before the Christian era.

The elephant, being the largest animal known, was chosen to represent the magnitude of the sins of the world, while the lamb, from its proverbial innocent nature, was chosen to represent the innocence of the victim.

We have the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world. The Lamb of God could have been borrowed from the Druids.

This legend was found in Gaul long before Jesus Christ was known to history.


Quezalcoatl of Mexico 587 B.C.
Historical crucifixion of this Mexican god.
The evidence engraved upon metal plates.
Sometimes he is represented as having been nailed to a cross with two thieves hanging with him.

Quirinius of Rome 506 B.C.
The crucifixion of this Roman savior. He is represented, like Christ: conceived and brought forth by a virgin.
His life was sought by the reigning king, Amulius.
He was of royal blood, his mother being of kingly descent.
He was put to death by wicked hands or crucified.
He is resurrected, and ascends back to heaven.

Prometheus 547 B.C.
The crucifixion of Prometheus - he was nailed to an upright beam of timber, extended arms of wood, a cross.
When he died: The earth shook, the graves were opened, and and Our Lord and saviour Prometheus gave up the ghost.
The cause for which he suffered was his love for the human race. The story of Prometheus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection was acted in pantomime in Athens five hundred years before Christ.

Thulis of Egypt 1700 B.C.
Thulis of Egypt, died on the cross about thirty-five hundred years ago.
After suffering a violent death, he was buried, but rose again, ascended into heaven, and there became the judge of the dead, or of souls in a future state.
He came down from heaven to benefit mankind, and that he was said to be full of grace and truth.

Indra of Tibet 725 B.C.
This Tibetan saviour is shown nailed to the cross. There are five wounds, representing the nail-holes and the piercing of the side.
His mother was a virgin.
He ascended to a heavenly mansion after his crucifixion.
He led a life of strict celibacy, which, he taught, was true holiness.
He inculcated great tenderness toward all living beings.
He could walk upon the water or upon the air.
He could foretell future events with great accuracy.
He completely subdued his passions.
He was worshiped as a god who had existed as a spirit from all eternity.

Alcestos of Euripides 600 B.C.
A crucified God was Alcestos, who was female, the only example of a feminine God atoning for the sins of the world upon the cross.
The doctrine of the trinity and atoning offering for sin was part of her religion.

Attis of Phrygia 1170 B.C.
This crucified Messiah was suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again.

Crite of Chaldaea 1200 B.C.
The Chaldeans crucifixion of a god atoning for an Angry God.

Bali of Orissa 725 B.C.
A crucified God, known by being the second member of the trinity.

Most of the crucified gods occupied that position in a trinity of gods, the Son, in all cases, being the atoning offering.

Mithras of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind, and to take away the sins of the world.
He was born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree.

Devatat of Siam, Ixion of Rome, Apollonius of Tyana all died on the cross.

Ixion, 400 BC, was crucified on a wheel, the rim representing the world, and the spokes constituting the cross.
He bore the burden of the world, the sins of the world, on his back while suspended on the cross. He was called the crucified spirit of the world.

Christian writers find it necessary to omit the crucifixion of these saviors fearing the telling would lessen the spiritual force of the crucifixion of Christ, which has to be unique.

They thus exalted the tradition of the crucifixion into the most important dogma of the Christian faith to conceal from the public the fact that it is of pagan origin.

Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry says that Freemasons secretly taught the doctrine of the crucifixion, atonement and resurrection preceded the Christian era.

[Sajih]

Welcome to our forum Gary I thank you for your words of encouragement and support.
Unlike yourself as a catholic I was first driven to search for the truth inside my bible that is why I spent 6 months reading the book cover to cover!
This was the beginning of my journey that opened up the key to other scriptures such as the Qoran and Gospel of Barnabas .
By reading these scriptures I was able to establish a link between the truth and lies that I had discovered without resorting to the information of the Internet.
I do commend you for one thing that the Trinity did in fact exist in the Hindu religion long before Christ and that the story of Krishna is exactly that of Jesus and that Christianity has adopted these beliefs and that is why I accuse Paul of the false Christianity in the beginning of the documentary . But I strongly disagree with you that Jesus was a fictional character and that the bible is fictional . For if this was true then Adam and Eve would have never existed and you and I would never have met on this forum. Yet I strongly believe that the picture of the true Jesus was deliberately tainted by the devil and his followers to portray him as having the same characteristics as the Hindu Gods.
As we speak I am working on another documentary that in fact proves from within our bible that the Jesus you have just described as having the same history as Krishna is not the founder of Christianity nor does he have any connection with it as already clearly proven in the documentary that he is not a Trinity nor is he the Saviour and that he clearly did not die as you have stated.
I will also show you proof from our bible that Jesus has nothing to do with Buddha as you refer to the phrases that Jesus allegedly said but in time you will see that those phrases were put there by the devil and his followers just like other phrases which we have already proven have been put there.
In summing up I can confidently say that if you had read your bible first then the other scriptures as I mentioned earlier; then clearly any information you would have later found on the internet would have been easier to analyse and put into perspective and furthermore you would have had a concrete belief that what you did find on the Internet was indeed implemented in the bible by the corrupt scribes as we have already clearly shown.
God bless
sajih

[Gary DeVaney]

My Brother Sajih,

I call you Brother because I know you are a fellow seeker of the truth. Therefore we are Brothers in that regard.

I can also tell, from watching the videos, that you love God and want to do the right thing.

However, we differ in that you are still a captive of words in the bible. You claim that you found the truth in the bible itself, but how can one find the truth from a source that has been so heavily interfered with?

Not only that, you must accept the fact that the bible and the entire christian religion itself, was the creation of a mortal man named Constantine. He forced people to attend this meeting (under the threat of death), so that he can bring control to all the people of the land, by uniting them under one religion. This explains why christianity has so many similarities with Pagans, Druids, and many others. Everyone at that meeting wanted a little of their holy scriptures included in the new religion that they were artificially creating. There was no divinity involved in this process. They were not being guided by angels or God or anything else that would give authority to declare a book as the holy word of God. So after much compromising from the different sects, and after much persuasion from constantine himself (in the form of bribes or threats to kill), they finally came to an agreement after so much time had passed by (at least 2 years, some say even much longer than that).

So it took an emporer who had absolute power and an unlimited budget, to combine together many different religions at the time, to create a single religion to unite the people of the lands.

The fact that this absurdity has lasted to this day, is a reflection of the success that church leaders have had in brainwashing people to believe this nonsense (or else they will perish in hell and all that). After so many centuries, people are born into believing the church and all its teachings and beliefs. No one really questioned anything for many centuries. The internet was an information conduit that the modern church leaders could not control, so we are finally able to openly question these religions and to shed light on the history of the bible and formation of religions.

Church leaders of the past were very powerful and often abused their power for selfish gains. How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many village women have been raped by a church authority, in the name God (driving out evil spirits, threatening to declare her a witch if they resist the sex, etc)? It's all a big joke that got out of hand and is now too big to ever really stop it.

The real God is probably crying at what has been done in his name. He must be so ashamed of the human race.

But please Brother Sajih, beleive me when I tell you that Jesus was created by the clowns at constantine's meeting in the year 325AD. Here is another interesting link that does a good job in summarizing where Jesus came from. The guy that made this website is a bit of a nut job with the 666 number (so ignore that part of the website), but the Jesus information is accurate. It's worth taking a quick look of it here:
http://www.yahspeople.com/jesus.html

Keep asking questions Sajih,
May the real God keep blessing you.

Gary

[Sajih]

Thank you for your input once again. It is clear to me that you obviously watched the videos but did not grasp the true meaning of them. We here at the Church of everlasting God and all his prophets believe in the God of Abraham Ishmael Issac and Jacob for the very simple reason that we bothered to read and examine our bible . On one hand we have you commend us for being brave and revealing the truth which I don't know if you noticed or not came out of the bible. And on the other hand you want us to completely abolish all traces of this bible and to not believe in the truth that you initially commended us for. What you bring to the table is nothing new to us for we already knew of its existence but our first and foremost priority was to show the World what was in their bible and not what was on the channels of the Internet. If you are to speak to a Christian outside of his or her bible then you will encounter numerous difficulties and have next to no response or feedback from them. Same as you were to approach a Muslim and preach to him outside his Qoran you would have the same difficulties.

You claim to love God and yet you wish to disown the bible and it's prophets. If it was not for the prophets my dear friend then how would mankind have possibly any knowledge of the One True God?

As for Constantine and his evil plans we already knew of his manipulation and threats as was clearly shown in video 2. We will go further and state that it was not Constantine that introduced the Christian religion but rather Paul who self confesses to this fact in his letters some 325years before the Council of Nicea.
You see my dear friend Gary you tell us to ask questions and then you go to the Internet for answers when the answers to all your questions are in your bible underneath your nose.
This is the point I am trying to get across you do not need to search for any answers outside your bible and the scriptures mentioned.
You clearly state how can you believe the bible and its content when it is clearly corrupted. In reply to your question how did you know that the lies we revealed in the presentation were true and what made you commend us if you did not see the evidence in the bible!
My dear friend Gary one thing we are sure of is that we have deeply examined the bible and compared it to all the scriptures as I clearly pointed out earlier and you can clearly see in the presentation .

You must understand that the devil despite his deceit and lies was not able to cover his tracks and eventually his plans have come unstuck.
In your conclusion you state may the real God bless you may I politely ask who is your God and what is his book so I may get to know Him.
Keep in touch my friend

sajih

[Gary DeVaney]

My dear Brother Sajih,

If you read my previous postings carefully, you will see that I have never commended you for REVEALING the truth, but only commended you for LOOKING for the truth. I also mentioned that you did not go far enough in revealing all the lies.

Also, your attempts at belittling my research findings by saying I "went to the Internet for answers", does nothing to disprove that Constantine and his little meeting with his merry men in 325 AD, are the sole source of putting together what we now call the New Testament. He is responsible for the lies about God being a trinity, about the existence of Jesus Christ, and about so many other things that billions of people around the world regard as sacred and holy. Did you know that no one in the world had ever heard the name Jesus Christ until Constantine put together the names of Hesus and Krishna? Nowhere in history do we find any mention of Jesus Christ (or Hesus Krishna as one person), prior to 325 AD.

You started finding the truth when you realized Constantine made up the trinity and introduced the cross, and all that. What you didn't realize was that you were looking at the total fabrication of the entire Christian religion - not just the trinity and the cross. You conveniently saw only what fitted in to your perception of truth (based on your studies of the Bible). You were looking for clues in a Bible who's very origins itself was a lie. And with all the alterations of this Bible over the centuries, it only gave you more things to find wrong or tainted or polluted. You were effectively comparing second-hand lies with the original lies.

You can't tell me that it's mere coincidence that there has been at least 33 religious figures (who pre-date Jesus's birth, some by over 1000 years), who all have had a virgin birth, a God for a Father, died on a cross, born on December 25, died and resurrected himself, and just about every other detail attributed to Jesus Christ. These are not just some "answers from the internet" as you like to dismiss them as. The names of these religious figures are part of a verifiable history of religious beliefs from many different civilizations. Information about religious figures such as: Thulis, Krishna, Prometheus, Atys, Thammuz, Hesus, Mithra, and all the other ones, were easily found in any normal research method prior to the invention of the internet (like libraries, musuems, ancient stones, folklore history, etc). The internet simply makes it easier to find these names by simply putting in a search term in Google such as "Hesus Krishna".

You started finding the truth, but you confused it as "pollution" or "tainting" because you wanted to believe that a Jesus Christ actually existed, and that the old testament was mostly true.

You asked me some difficult questions about who is this "real God" of mine, and what is his book, and also how can I know about a one God if not for the prophets of the past. I"m glad you asked those questions, because I did encourage you to keep asking questions, it shows a great intellect. It's only polite and respectful that I try to answer those questions. My evidence to you is the world around me. Our delicate planet that sustains our lives is a wonder in itself. It is just the right distance from the Sun for us humans, and also is the right distance from the Sun so that water can exist as a liquid (for us to drink and for the fish to swim in). Only God could have done that just right to suit us. I feel God whenever I drink a glass of water, whenever I take a breath of air, whenever I look at my children, whenever I see birds flying in the sky, fish swimming in water, whenever I feel sympathy for another person (apparently sympathy is a trait that scientist can't explain as a product of evolution), whenever I eat a meal, and so many other things that I can write about it all day.

But you have been brainwashed to thinking that God needs to have a book for us to know him. My response to you is to get your nose out of that bible and take a look around to see evidence of God everywhere. Do we really need a book to tell us that we should not kill another person, or that we should not steal, and the other commandments. This is just common sense and common decency that God bestowed us with. People that commit these terrible acts are either mentally unbalanced or are lost souls perhaps being tempted or led astray by something evil (or by the devil if that's the name you want to use).

As for the Prophets of the past - maybe they existed, or maybe we had messengers from God in the past that told us about him, and maybe that was some of the triggers for the various religious beliefs of the ancient past. This is just speculation on my behalf, and certainly does not give any credit to parts of the Bible being authentic.

But keep asking questions Sajih. Not just to me, but to everything.

May God keep blessing you.
Gary

[Sajih]

Once again I thank you for your input. At no point did I mean to come across as belittling you or anyone for that matter. I am actually proud to have met a person such as yourself who has the same goal as us and that is to prove that what Christians have believed for hundreds of centuries is mostly false and conjecture.
But that clearly does not mean that there is no truth in the bible.
In order to prove this my friend you need to show evidence from within the bible. Is that not so?

I cannot imagine any human on earth going into a court of law to prove that the bible is corrupt using the Internet as evidence ; can you? Of course not for the case will be thrown out !
I am not denying that Constantine was responsible for the Trinity and what he did was evil . But what you continue to overlook is that the Trinity was in effect a long long time before its official introduction in 325ad. In essence what I am saying is that there were other forces of evil as you like to put it that contributed to the birth of the Trinity way before Constantine introduced it in 325 a.d. And this is what I tried to explain to you earlier that the coming presentation will show the proof of what I am saying.
My dear friend Gary I am no great intellect as you suggest I am a simple man who is a Servant of God . The difference between me and you is that I know who God is and I know his law because I believe in his prophets.

As for you well your answers speak for themselves. All I can say to you is good luck to you but it is clear that you do not worship who we worship nor do you believe what we believe and I pray to the Everlasting and Everliving God to protect you and your family always . Amen

sajih

[Gary DeVaney]

My dear Brother Sajih,

Once again, you seem to fall back on the internet excuse. I thought I made myself clearer when I mentioned that you can find the evidence and stories about the multitude of individuals who all had almost identical stories to Jesus Christ. If I was indeed going to a court of law to prove that the bible is a fabrication, all I have to do is bring with me a dozen or so history books from the 60's and 70's (before the internet was around), that talk about ancient cultures including some of the religious figures that Jesus's life was mirrored from. The nail in the coffin would be to show evidence from the records that survived Constantine's meeting in 325AD, that the name Jesus Christ (or Hesus Krishna) was voted upon and put into existence at that meeting in 325AD. I will then ask the judge of this court case, at this point in the evidence, to declare any document with Jesus's name on it, that purports to be from before the year 325AD, as a forgery and inadmissible as evidence as we have just proved that Constantine made up that name in 325AD.

Then to further prove my court case, I would introduce into evidence the one feature that stands out prominently within the bible stories about Jesus that shows how people claimed to know Jesus far and wide, not only by a great multitude of followers but by the great priests, the Roman governor Pilate, and Herod who claims that he had heard "of the fame of Jesus" (Matt 14:1)". One need only read Matt: 4:25 where it claims that "there followed him [Jesus] great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judea, and from beyond Jordan." The bible mentions, countless times, the great multitude that followed Jesus and crowds of people who congregated to hear him. So crowded had some of these gatherings grown, that Luke 12:1 alleges that an "innumerable multitude of people... trode one upon another." Luke 5:15 says that there grew "a fame abroad of him: and great multitudes came together to hear..." The persecution of Jesus in Jerusalem drew so much attention that all the chief priests and scribes, including the high priest Caiaphas, not only knew about him but helped in his alleged crucifixion. (see Matt 21:15-23, 26:3, Luke 19:47, 23:13). The multitude of people thought of Jesus, not only as a teacher and a miracle healer, but a prophet (see Matt:14:5).

So here we have the gospels portraying Jesus as famous far and wide, a prophet and healer, with great multitudes of people who knew about him, including the greatest Jewish high priests and the Roman authorities of the area, and not one person records his existence during his lifetime? If the poor, the rich, the rulers, the highest priests, and the scribes knew about Jesus, who would not have heard of him? If these stories are really true about Jesus, then he would have been the most well known person in the world at that time.

And as the judge of this court case asks me to get to the point that I'm trying to make, I will tell him that it would be impossible that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe or follower who lived during the alleged time of Jesus, ever mentioned in their writings of a Jesus (or any one else by any other name for that matter) doing these miraculous activities! Take, for example, the works of Philo Judaeus whose birth occurred in 20 BC and died 50 AD. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Greek philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of Jesus or anyone else doing the things that Jesus was suppose to have done." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus or any of his activities in Seneca's (4 BC - 65 AD) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23 BC - 79 AD).

All of the above evidence could be attained without the use of the internet at all. The only evidence we have of Jesus is from hearsay testimony written long after the purported "witnesses" had lived. This is because the early church leaders had to retrospectively create the history of Jesus to give him more believability. But belief alone cannot produce historical fact, and claims that come from nothing but hearsay do not amount to an honest attempt to get at the facts. And as everyone knows, courts do not allow hearsay testimony to be admitted as evidence. Moreover, consider that the hearsay comes from ancient and unknown people that no longer live.

Unfortunately, belief and faith substitute as knowledge in many people's minds and nothing, not even direct evidence thrust on the feet of their claims, could possibly change their minds. They usually have some lame excuse such as "the devil has erased all the evidence", or "God is testing our faith", or something along those lines to conveniently deny the overwhelming evidence right in front of their faces. Yes, we have many stories, myths and beliefs of a Jesus. But if we wish to establish the facts of history, we cannot even begin to put together a knowledgeable account without at least a few reliable first-hand eyewitness accounts (not hearsay accounts written by authors hundreds of years after the supposed events occurred).

Of course a historical Jesus may have existed, perhaps based loosely on a living human even though his actual history got lost, but this amounts to nothing but speculation. However we do have an abundance of evidence supporting the mythical evolution of Jesus. Virtually every detail in the gospel stories occurred in Pagan and/or Hebrew stories, long before the advent of Christianity. We simply do not have a shred of evidence to determine the historicity of a Jesus Christ. We only have evidence for the belief of Jesus.

It would be at this point that I would rest my case.

My dear Brother Sajih, keep asking those questions, especially questions to yourself. You show great promise. Your mind is almost freed, but you're not there yet. You can be a great spokesperson for the truth. You know how to make good videos and you know how to make a good website. These are valuable tools for the fight against the lies about God. And you are wrong about the God we both love - he is the same God. He is the ONLY God. At least we both agree on that point.

May God keep blessing you.
Gary

[Sajih]

It is sad to see a man claim to know the One God when he is not sure if Gods prophets even existed . This is a clear sign that you are a lost soul.
If you truly worshipped the One True God the God of Abraham Ishmael Issac and Jacob then your faith would have served you well in establishing that all the information you found on the Internet would have led to only one possible conclusion and that is that the devil was successful in deceiving all those generations with these characters that were carbon copies of one another. I deeply thank you for supplying us with this information that confirms to everyone what we are all about, and that is revealing the truth in the bible. It is your given right to have an opinion as to what you think about the scriptures however it has become more clear to me that we do not have any common ground
May Our Lord God protect you always
sajih

[GarethM]

Hi Gary,

Sorry for intruding on the conversation between you and Sajih, but I have to say something about this to ease my mind.

You make a strong case for your beliefs, but there are things about your evidence that is just too convenient. First of all, all those false gods in history that you claim are carbon copies of the life of Jesus could not have possibly existed. The dates you give for their existence and their geographical locations (Thulis of Egypt 1700 BC, and Quexalcote of Mexico 587 BC for example) are too far apart in both timeframe and distance for any connection to be made for natural copying. In other words, someone in Mexico in 587 BC could not have possibly heard about some Egyptian religious figure from 1100 years in their past. Travel and communication between countries was almost non-existent back then (never mind the language barrier as well). And its too much of a coincidence for the exact events of their lives to be so similar with very specific details that are almost identical word-for-word. It reminds me of crooked police officers that both give identical written testimonies (word-for-word) about an event that they are trying to cover up, in order to protect their jobs.

So what makes more sense is that someone (or some force) had planted these fake characters to be a carbon copy of the life of Jesus. Obviously for the purpose of making Jesus look like just another one of these fake characters. It's a shame that you could not see through that obvious deception.

In your first post on this thread, you claim that you were not going to be deceived so easily by the Devil. But I'm sorry to say that you have indeed been deceived by the Devil. You found the planted evidence and were swift in condemning Jesus as fictitious. I feel sorry for you.

I pray that God will guide you out of your darkness.

-Gareth

[Gary DeVaney]

Dear Sajih and Gareth,

I never considered that these other figures that mirror Jesus's life might be fakes. Given the long time intervals involved between some of these figures, then it does seem improbable that the civilizations that created the myths could have known about the other myths far removed from their time and location. I also concede that the traits of these mythical beings are too identical for it to be pure chance that the people creating the mythical stories would all have thought of those exact details on their own.

I must re-examine my evidence and my beliefs for that matter. It never occured to me that maybe the devil has tricked me to advocate the seeds of his lies.

Thank you Sajih and Gareth for bringing this point to my attention.

May God keep blessing you both.
Gary